Rob Meany
So, yeah, I'm definitely a chord guy. You've picked up on that, and I probably obsess a little too much about the chords, honestly.
Brad:Well, whatever you're doing, just keep doing that. I love that you're never afraid to use a 5 minor chord, which is the greatest chord in any song as far as I'm concerned. So Okay.
Rob:2, 3, 4.
Brad:Hey, Rob. How are you today?
Rob:Great. Thanks for having me. This is great.
Brad:Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's an honor to have a chat with you. So, yeah, I came to know you, a friend introducing me to spymob first.
Rob:Oh, yeah.
Brad:And then I started seeking out other Minneapolis based bands and, found, your band's information on on the Internet and then bought all the records on on iTunes.
Rob:Wow. And Thank you.
Brad:And then just started, letting all of my musician friends in Atlanta hear you guys, and they were just all knocked out with the sound of the band.
Rob:Oh, wow. Well, thank you for spreading the word.
Brad:Yeah. It was just, it just checked all the boxes of everything that I've liked to hear. You know? Good songwriting, good production, great playing and singing. And so, yeah, I just really would like to just get some information about you.
Brad:Just find out about you and Yeah. What led you to be where you are now.
Rob:If we wanna go way back, so I was born and raised in Duluth, Minnesota, and, went to college down, near the cities, Twin Cities, Saint Olaf College. Started a music major, didn't really find my place there. I I didn't really wanna pursue a traditional music degree, so I didn't end up finishing, that major, but I got an English major. And I should say I, like, musically, my musical background is is, you know, I took piano lessons in, junior high, high school, played bass in, electric bass and, jazz band and choir in college and that sort of thing. So I sorta had a a mix of experiences, but it wasn't till after college that I really sort of found my voice as a songwriter.
Rob:And I started writing songs, and I I was kinda trying to find my place in the music scene here in the cities and played for some side projects as a keyboard guy, and then eventually tried to form my own band, Terramara. And, that was it's quite a task. I tell you, I went went through a number of players before I found a solid lineup, and, the I have the been with the same guys now since, like, 2,005, I think. 2004, 2005. And, yeah.
Rob:I just started putting together some demos, and then we got a local producer to do an album with us. And, you know, we've just been kind of following our own path. I don't know if we really fit in with the musical trends of the day, but we've been kinda just doing our thing. And, like you said, we're sort of like minded with, spy mob, sort of a jazz rock hybrid thing, I guess. So, I guess that brings me up to so we put out 3 records, and, and then, took a little bit of a break, and then I decided to do a solo project, that I put out in 2016.
Rob:And then, you know, I was getting ready to do some more work on another album or maybe even a terror Mar album. And then the pandemic hit and then, you know, it just kinda, everything just kinda fell apart for awhile. But, now my my great ambition here now is is not only to do a solo album, but also a new Terramara record. I got the guys back on the same page, and hopefully, we're gonna, you know, move forward. It's it's really hard.
Rob:You know, they're all really busy and, but, we're doing one one song at a time right now, but I would like to do a whole record if I can. So
Brad:Well, everything that that I've heard that you've released, from those band albums to your solo album to the the stuff that you're putting out now. Man, it's just, it's just good songwriting. I think it's funny that you've wound up being an English major because I'm sure that gave you a lot of, additional tools in the toolbox for, being a songwriter.
Rob:Yeah. You know, it did help. I think I think I attached more importance to the lyrics. Like, I I actually did try really hard to come up with meaningful lyrics to my songs, so they're not just kinda throwaways. You know?
Rob:Yeah. And, I'm glad you noticed that. I've been I've been trying to make that, you know, as important as the music. I think a lot of people do listen to lyrics. I don't know if I was you know, just as a listener, I don't know if I was ever really captured by the lyrics of of songs, although I, you know, I know what it's about.
Rob:But, now well, like Sting. You know, Sting's Sting's probably a good, like, icon to sort of emulate. He's he's sort of literate, and he's trying to he's really trying to pack a lot of meaning into the songs, you know, with the lyrics. But I just got a note from a guy in England who heard, like, my afterlife song for my solo record. I don't know if you remember that one, but, and he was like, very effusive.
Rob:He's just like, I, I cry to this song and he was super emotional about it. I'm just like, wow. You know, this makes it all worthwhile to try to really put something into the the narrative of the song.
Brad:I will tell you that my wife and I, if we were to have a song, your song, All That I Am, I made a ringtone out of that song that was when my wife called, that's the song that would play.
Rob:Oh, wow. That's just that that's, warms my heart to hear that. Yeah. No. I that's what you want as a songwriter.
Rob:You wanna be able to reach people, and, that means a lot. Thank you.
Brad:Yeah. Absolutely. I I was thinking about it as I was getting ready for this. You know? I told everyone that I knew.
Brad:All my buddies that play music in Atlanta, they were all digging what you guys were putting out. My only Itunes review that I ever did was for your album. I was talking about how great it was.
Rob:Oh, thank you.
Brad:So, yeah, man. It just, there was something about it that just it just really connected with with what I, just the what my ears like to hear. You know? And it and, yeah, it just it just shows the power of, what a song can do to your to your heart and to your to your brain, and that's what it did.
Rob:Yeah. Thank you, man. I, I'm trying to remember if I read I probably read that review. Was that for the do you remember which album or which or was it just sort of
Brad:a What was it would have been the second album.
Rob:Mhmm.
Brad:And I remember I believe I may have put something on there because I remember this one guitar solo having this really, like, Pat Metheny type thing about it.
Rob:Yes. That's that sounds like Carl. Carl Kootman is my longtime, guitar player and really integral to the sound. And, yeah, big Pat Metheny guy, but he's got his own style. He's amazing.
Rob:I, I really think he's kinda like my secret weapon on a lot of these recordings. He really comes with ideas and parts and, transforms the music. Even even now, it's like I I just I've been sending out demos to the guys, and, he'll immediately have some amazing ideas about you know, to transform the song and the arrangement.
Brad:Yeah.
Rob:And anytime he gets involved, it just sounds better. So, I mean, I'm just, I can, I'm in good hands with him, you know? Just one example. We, we finally got back on track in 2023 with, a single called Beautiful Circles, and we put that out in early 23. And, that was one where, you know, I give it to Carl.
Rob:He comes over, we start recording and he's got this beautiful, like, pattern that he plays at the beginning of the song.
Rob:And I'm just like, wow, I never would have come up with any of that stuff. You know? And then, and then you get into sec, you
Rob:get into the verse and the core, all of a sudden you hit the chorus and then we got some pretty heavy guitar and bass and, and, Carl's looking at me going, this is a definitely a Terramar joint now. You know, this is, this is not a Rob Meaney tune anymore. I mean, he transforms it, you know. So I I I got just all kinds of accolades for him. That's all I'd have to say.
Brad:Great player. Yeah. And just plays plays just what fits for the song. It's really it's really good.
Rob:That's a really important point. I mean, it's he does sort of have a re a respect for what fits with the song, you know? And, there's lots of stuff coming down the pike. I've got my solo stuff. I can do whatever I want.
Rob:I think the Terramara thing, I'm almost like, hey. We sort of have a brand here. Like, we have a style that means Carl and the other guys are as much a part of this as I am, and I wanna I wanna get I wanna milk every bit of that. You know? So I I bring the songs and I if Carl's like, hey.
Rob:This is gonna be a banger. This could be a rocker. Let's go all out with the guitars blah blah. I'm just like, hey. Go for it, man.
Rob:Yeah. Let's see what you can come up with.
Brad:Yeah. So when you say, for example, when you recorded the the Taramara albums versus your solo album, how was the approach for the 2 of those? Is it would you say Tarahumara is more of a shared responsibility between piano and guitar? Is it more of a guitar band? How would you define that?
Rob:Yeah. That's a good question. I think it's I think it has sort of evolved over the years. And depending on the song, it could be more like, I remember our our 3rd album, that Dustin Fiction record, I was consciously thinking, you know, I'd really like to see what it would sound like to incorporate more guitar in the sound because it's I mean, in a in a sense, it was sort of a keyboard based band to begin with and with all my, you know, jazz stylings and whatever. But I thought let's do a little more poppy rock record with Carl a little more upfront, and that's kinda I think that album maybe had a little more of that kinda style.
Rob:Yeah. So when I I guess, to answer your question then, when we get to the solo stuff, I guess it's more about, like, going from a rock quartet sort of sound, which is, you know, kinda traditional in the rock world. I would sort of, hey. You know, what else can we do as instrument wise? What else can we do arrangement wise to make this sound a little more like a singer songwriter approach?
Brad:Mhmm.
Rob:So, I mean, I think there was like, maybe, and I'm very conscious of this. Like when I, when I write the song or when I approach a production, like, there was only, like, one song I would say on the on the solo record, and that's the view that probably sounded anything like a Tara Martin song. Like, the rest of it was definitely, like, in a different space. So, yeah, solo. Sometimes I get confused myself because it's like, you know, this is all kind of Rob Meaney stuff.
Rob:I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I can really define exactly what it is, but I have a I I feel like I I've got a style. I should just go with that and, you know, it depends on what I wanna do production wise. There's so many different avenues for that.
Brad:Yeah. Do do you record all those albums at your place, or do you do it somewhere else?
Rob:I try to do a lot of it here at home now because I've gathered over the years, I've gathered enough equipment that I can do pretty solid, like, piano, the keyboards, the vocals, and then if I need drums, I mean, we gotta go we gotta go in the studio. And then part of it is just with all the Taramar records and then, you know, my apologies to our drummer, but we we book like a whole weekend and we say, hey, Dave, can you cut 10 songs in the weekend? All we're trying to do is get, like, some solid bass tracks, you know, to work from, and then we go, do stuff at my place or whatever.
Brad:Yeah.
Rob:So, yeah, a lot of a lot of the newer stuff I'm doing here. In fact, beautiful circles, I said, hey. Let's let's see if we can do it all right here, except for I'll go to a small studio and get Dave to cut his track by himself. And and then I'll do bass and guitar over here, and then I just send
Brad:it off to a guy to mix it.
Rob:And, you know, that's part of it too. I mean, a big part is just finding the right person to mix.
Brad:Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Rob:So I, I'm lucky to be surrounded by some amazing people here in Minneapolis. I use a guy named Andy Thompson who he, he produced that solo record, and he's an amazing guy. I mean, he can do anything, and he's produced a lot of talent out of here and elsewhere. But, he, he mixed that beautiful circles single and the second one to dream, dreamers in dreamland. Those 2, I mean, you can't believe the transformation between what I gave him for tracks and what it ended up sounding like.
Rob:It's just, I mean, that's the magic that I'm just, like, is beyond me in some ways.
Brad:Yeah. Well, when you talk to him, tell him that I said that on your solo album, that's about as good of a snare drum sound as I've ever heard. That a snare drum just man, it sounds so good.
Rob:He's he's a master at that. He played and that's an interesting comment because we did have a number of different drummers on that. So he actually played drums on a few tracks, and then I had Dave on a few from Terramara, and then I had, another guy, Pete Hennig, and maybe some other folks too. But, yeah, he he was able to dial in a consistent sound on Yeah. On a lot of different sessions, You know?
Rob:So it's, kudos to him.
Brad:Yeah. It sounds really good. When you mentioned Minneapolis, I I was curious. What is it about that city and the music scene? You know, all of us that aren't from Minneapolis, we just kinda look at it in awe.
Brad:Like, how can one city crank out so many great musicians?
Rob:That's a really good question. You know, I don't know exactly what spawned it, you know, but I think I gotta I gotta think. I don't know how far back we can go, but I gotta think that Prince really put us on the map Sure.
Brad:In a
Rob:lot of ways. And maybe what emulated from that, and and then you had, you know, The Replacements, Husker Du. I mean, you had you had some really seminal bands that started here, and, I don't know. There's just there's just a lot of people involved in the arts up here. Yeah.
Rob:And I mean that, like, in the broad sense of theater, musicals, there's a lot of music. There's a lot of, there's dance. There's, you know, there's so many facets to it, and I think you're just gonna get a lot of people. There's just a lot of musicians. I mean, I I I don't know how to describe it.
Rob:There's just so many people to work with. Yeah. But I'm sure every town has has, you know, a tight community of people like that. And, Yeah. That's a really good question.
Rob:I'd have to think more on that.
Brad:You know, from a I guess from an outsider's perspective, just looking at it, it's like, man, there are a lot of great, players and singers that have, that have come from that area. It's really cool.
Rob:Yeah. Yeah. Well, you were in Atlanta for a long time. Is that I mean, that's also kind of a hot spot, isn't it?
Brad:Oh, man. Yeah. Great scene. Yeah. I started out as a drummer and realized I could get a lot of work as a singing bass player.
Brad:Bass players that can sing are, in short supply. So that's what I did there.
Rob:Well, I gotta I gotta tell you, man. I started off on bass a little bit too, and, bass players are always in demand. And I told that to my 2 sons who both play bass.
Brad:Oh, cool.
Rob:I'm like, hey, man. If you wanna be in a band, if you play bass, you're always gonna find a spot.
Brad:You know?
Rob:And, there's a lot of guitar players, but bass, I mean, that's a niche. It's a good niche.
Brad:Especially bass players that don't play bass like a guitar player. You know what I mean? That that don't play too much. I mean, that's, what is that old saying? There's no money above the 5th fret.
Brad:You know? There's, like, there's, if you can just play to the song, your calendar will stay busy forever.
Rob:Yeah. Totally. I believe it.
Brad:So when you were growing up, what were you listening to? What kind of were you hearing music at home, musical family? What what was that part of your life like?
Rob:So, I wouldn't say I wouldn't say I have a musical, fam like, my parents weren't super active as musicians. They were I mean, I think they sang in church and whatnot, and they were interested in the arts. They were both artists. So my dad was, art professor at UMD, University of Minnesota in Duluth, and my mom was a fiber arts person. So she did weavings and spinning and weaving, and, I guess from that, they were very supportive of doing the doing the arts.
Rob:So they really got us involved early on in, music. And I should say to my, my sister, my younger sister, Catherine, is a professional oboe player for the National Symphony.
Brad:In DC. Yeah. Wow. Okay.
Rob:So she really took to that as well and and followed that path. So I guess in a sense, we are a musical family, although our parents weren't super active. But yeah. So from from the early stages, I was really taken with a piano, and I didn't have a piano in the house early on. And, I used to go sneak into the church that we went to, and I'd, play on that piano.
Rob:And then I think my parents got the idea that maybe I maybe I should, you know, have a piano and take some lessons. So we actually got a piano, and then, I think it was from my grandparents. So I started taking lessons and I I was really I did listen to and play a lot of classical music. So I think I think that probably informs my approach to songwriting, you know. I think I have a sort of a classical approach.
Rob:And then I started to listen to jazz, you know, my teen years. I think I was mostly influenced by listening to jazz records, classical, mostly the piano, you know, like Chopin and some of the more, you know, Bach, Beethoven, the the big ones, Mozart. And then, Chicago, you know, Doobie Brothers, Steely Dan a bit. Although I have to say, if I could sort of go on the record, I would say what that was the one band everybody sort of seized on when they heard Terramara. And I have to say, I appreciate it.
Rob:I'm honored by the comparison, but I have to say I wasn't like like that wasn't like the band for me. I almost feel like I came at it from the same place that they came at it from. Like, they listened to jazz, Iceland and jazz. We both sort of informed our songwriting from the jazz, but, I'll take that as a compliment that we sound like Steely Dan. You know?
Rob:Cause we do have a lot of jazz. I put a lot of jazz sort of voicings and changes. I try to keep it interesting that way. But, yeah. So I guess I guess that was my base, you know, and then and then I just along the way, you know, Peter Gabriel and, Beatles, of course, when you're growing up, everybody's listening to the Beatles.
Rob:I learned a lot of Beatles songs, and, I don't know. I guess I guess it was it was one of those things where I didn't know anything about music scene or bands and stuff. I don't even you know, I was just kinda flying blind to get into it, and so I didn't really understand that whole scene. I had to sort of figure it out. It took a long time, but, that was kinda where I was at.
Brad:When did you start playing gigs?
Rob:I think I, you know, I really saw myself as a piano player early on. I didn't really get into the songwriting till after college, but, I think my my initial goal was just sort of how how can I have how can I make money doing music? How can I have a music career? So I seeing myself as a piano player, I kinda fit myself in the slot of, okay, I'm gonna do any piano gigs that come up. So I'd playing at, you know, receptions, weddings, events, learned a lot of that kind of music, you know, and lounge style music.
Rob:And I learned how to play jazz standards and stuff on my own. And so I I did that over the years to make money, and, I didn't really see myself as a singer until much later. And that was a little more of a challenge. I, like, I I didn't come to that naturally. Like, I had to sort of push myself to sort of sing and play and learn how to write songs.
Rob:I think at some point, I just wanted to be a part of the scene, and I wanted to be, trying to test that out. But that was all going on at the same time while I was trying to be, whatever kind of musician I could be just to make money. I mean, you know how that is.
Brad:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I do.
Brad:I work in technology. I'm a tech director at a private school in Saint Louis, but I basically worked also full time as a musician. And I understand, man, the hustle of that, and it it's a it takes quite a commitment to do it and to just be faithful and have people around you that are, willing to sign up for that ride with you. You know? My I've I have a supportive wife who's that way, and it's tough.
Rob:Yeah. So I my wife is also very supportive, and I had to cobble together a lot of different stuff to make it work. So, like, I would say for a good 10 years, I was trying to write, music for television commercials and radio and stuff like that. So I I kinda burned out on it after a while, but it kinda sucked all my creative juices. But I decided to sort of wean myself off that a few years back, but I was doing that pretty heavily early on.
Rob:And, my other gig, was is and still is, teaching piano lessons. So I do that, part time. And then I do a lot of I still do a lot of solo gigging. And, you know, you're probably aware, of just the fact that, hey, if you can play covers, people will pay you pretty decent to play covers. So I you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not below doing some cover gigs.
Rob:I try to mix in my own stuff in there to sneak it in there.
Brad:Sure.
Rob:But, but, yeah, I can I can make a decent amount of money here, just playing gigs on the weekends?
Brad:You know, I love to hear your original material, but I'm I would I'm sure hearing you do some other people's material, you probably do it really well.
Rob:Well, you know, I kinda try to stay within my wheelhouse, which I know is gonna be sort of the keyboard players. So I do, you know, Smelting John, Billy Joel, you know, a lot of Beatles. So, yeah, I'm kinda I'm kinda sticking with that kind of stuff. And, yeah, I I try to I try to mix it up a bit, but, yeah, I try to I try to specialize a bit just because I know I probably sound better if I do that.
Brad:Yeah. No. I get I get it. I I I totally understand. I have my thing, my range, my style that works, and
Rob:What do you like to play when you're doing this?
Brad:So I I I sing I mean, and I sing of various styles, but, you know, I work a lot with guys. We do some Steely Dan, a lot of Beatles stuff. Bruce Hornsby. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Brad:You know, I I I have a I typically have worked a lot in bands with good keyboard players. I I've been very lucky to work with good keyboard players, and that's I think I gravitate toward projects that feature that and material that features that instrument. So I do like I like, you know, the Billy Joel stuff, you know, the the the material that that kind of, lets that instrument sit out on the front. That's what that's what I prefer.
Rob:Yeah. Yeah. Well, there was a kind of a golden period there, I think, in the seventies, eighties, you know, and and it's great you mentioned, Bruce Hornsby because he's a big hero of mine too. Just the way he incorporated some some different stylings into it. But, yeah, I'm the I'm the same way.
Rob:I think we probably have the same top 10 Yeah. List or something. So
Brad:yeah. Hornsby is a big hero of mine too for a lot of reasons and that he he draws from so many influences. I mean, he he plays contemporary classical music in his solo shows to I mean, he released a jazz trio album, and then his band stuff is just unbelievable. And, yeah, he's he's the total package.
Rob:Yeah. I love how he's evolved. I mean, he's you're you're right. He's done so many different genres. And, and then he takes some of his old stuff, and he puts a twist on it or whatever.
Rob:It's just great to see him out just doing his things still, and people are still excited about him, about hearing him.
Brad:Yeah. I I have a a friend whose best friend is John Thompson, his b three player. And, they were coming through Atlanta, and, I played a gig with him and the guitar player that was with Bruce at the time. And we were just chatting about that whole deal. I was like, what is it like playing with him?
Brad:He said, well, there's no set list. We never know what we're gonna do. He takes requests all night, and he'll even play some of his material in different keys just to keep us on our toes. They just never know what's gonna happen.
Rob:Wow. That's a tough gig. I mean, that's that's a high bar. That's a high bar. Yeah.
Rob:It's great. Sometimes he'll even post, like, oh, here's what we did last night. And, I mean, it's this detailed list of all these, like, sideways that go off in this direction and over here. And, like you say, I didn't realize, like, he's taking requests all night. Well, wow.
Rob:That's wild. I mean, that's wide open. You have to know your entire catalog probably.
Brad:He'll take requests and do songs that aren't even his. He'll just do whatever.
Rob:Like, man, you're brave. Yeah. So talented. I mean Yeah. It's just amazing.
Brad:I noticed and and hearing you tell tell your story, it just confirms a lot of my suspicions, I suppose, that I hear a good music theory foundation, a lot of good voice leading in your piano playing. And was music theory a big thing that you you studied? Because I hear that in the way you write.
Rob:Yeah. I mean, I I that I really internalized was just learning how to play jazz standards and how to voice chords and how to play pop songs. I mean, after you learn about a 100, 200 pop songs, you kinda get an idea of what works and what doesn't. Right. And, I definitely I think I I think that was my big revelation is just is just learning how how other people wrote songs, and then I try to, follow that lead.
Rob:I I'm a little weird, I think, in that at least if you go back if you go and listen to some of the Tera Myers stuff, I'm, like, almost purposely trying to do something a little odd with some of the songs because when I look back now, it's like, yeah, boy, that was kind of a a weird twist, but it kinda works, you know, and, like, it'll go from major to minor, minor, or you're, like, will change keys and go to a different chorus key or some you know? Yeah. Those kind of things. I don't know. I just it's sometimes I feel like I just do that, subconsciously because I want it to sound fresh.
Rob:I want it to go somewhere differently. Like, just I don't know. I wanna keep it keep it interesting but not stray too far so we're not like in some crazy alternative universe where it's it's not making sense to people. But, I just go with what sounds good to me, and sometimes I I don't wanna hear the same progressions. I think that's what it comes down.
Rob:It's like, I don't wanna hear a 145 too much. I mean, let let's see what else we can put in there, you know? And, so, yeah, I'm definitely a chord guy. You've you've picked up on that, and I I probably obsess a little too much about the chords, honestly.
Brad:Well, whatever you're doing, just keep doing that. I I I love that you're you're never afraid to use a 5 minor chord, which is the greatest chord in any song as far as I'm concerned.
Rob:Okay. I'll try to keep those coming. See what else I can dig up. Yeah.
Brad:Yeah. That's good.
Brad:Gotta hug those train kids to dreamers. What is your songwriting process? Do you are you typically music first, lyrics later, or does it that that's how it normally start?
Rob:Yeah. Yeah. That's and I don't know how common that is, but I've never done it any other way. I always write the music first. I start with the chords and I'm playing some chords and I like the pattern.
Rob:I'm like, okay. Now let's see. What what what could I over this? It would sound interesting. So I'll come up with a melody line and then, of course, you fit the lyrics to the phrases.
Rob:I mean, you know, I guess that's always been the natural process. I'm I'm really interested in how many people do do it that way as opposed to, hey, I just wrote some lyrics last night. Let's see if we can shoehorn these in. You know? I I know that's how Elton John works with, with his lyricist.
Rob:It burn is it Bernie Toppin?
Brad:Yes. He,
Rob:he hands them some it's like, Bernie, I need a song about this. Okay. Hands him some lyrics, and somehow, Elton John is able to make a song out of that. It just it's amazing.
Brad:It's amazing to me too.
Rob:Yeah. So that's my process. And along the way, I guess if you wanna get into the Terramar world, they're really good about, okay. You know, we really should cut this part, and let's do let's rearrange this. So they might have ideas about rearranging the sections or Okay.
Rob:Different, you know, why don't I play a solo here? Why don't why don't you sing not sing here, and I will do this and blah blah. You know? But, I'm kinda on my own as far as the lyrics and the melody and and then the chords. But up after that, I I kinda let those guys just go wild and, see what happens.
Rob:It's usually pretty good
Brad:Yeah.
Rob:Result. So
Brad:Yeah. Absolutely. I was wondering about that, and that that answers my question about that collaborative process when when the band works out stuff. Do you do you I was wondering if you came with ideas, kind of a full sketched idea, or if if if each player kind of writes their own parts for those for those songs?
Rob:You know, it's it kinda varies by song. You know, because I have, you know, the studio here now. I I do some like, if I have a specific idea for a sound or a, you know, a part, I'll just I'll probably put that in the demo. And instead and sometimes I don't wanna do that because I want them to come up with something really cool. And I don't know what it's gonna be, but I'll just throw like a piano or a keyboard demo and see what they come up with.
Rob:But, you know, like on Beautiful Circles, I had a pretty elaborate demo already set to go. Okay. And it still didn't it didn't stop them from putting their own signature on it. So that's a good sign because I I don't wanna like limit them by saying, okay, here's here's what I wrote for a bass part and here's what I wrote for, you know, everything else. I I just sort of thought, well, let's try this.
Rob:I'll I'll I'll throw you what I got and then have you come in and play over it. And, and it worked out pretty good that time. If you go back to, like, the second record, 4 blocks to Hennepin, that was a little more collaborative because I had a different bass player, and I've I we were in more of a, hey. Let's rehearse every week kinda mode.
Brad:Okay.
Rob:And that allowed me to sort of step back and say, you know what? I'm just gonna play this, Rhodes part. And why don't you and the drummer kinda come up with something over the, you know, so he was really I gotta give him credit for a lot of the baselines on that record, which was stellar. That was really his thing. Like, so there's really some signature stuff on there that I can point to where it's more collaborative.
Rob:And, yeah. And the drummer too. It's like I just wanna let him get a feel get the feel. And, usually it works out. I just let him come up with a groove.
Brad:Those guys play really well. And and, again, just like we were talking earlier about your guitar player, everyone just the parts are just appropriate, and they just fit the song really well. There's Yeah. Nothing's ever distracting from anything
Rob:else. Yeah. And, you know, I think there's something to be said for just being more experienced too. I remember, like, our first record was kind of, like, everybody's just playing all over the place, you know, which was fine, and it worked out, and we had a sound. But then the 2nd record, I think we kinda were a little more, like, analytical about it.
Rob:Like, you know, let's let's be a little more circumspect about who's playing when and what. So that that record had a lot more space, you know, it just had a wider palette. And then, you know, as you get older, I think you just realize you can't put too much into the mix. You have to sort of pick and choose what are the priorities here, you know.
Brad:Yeah. I was just telling someone that the other day that that the older you get is when you realize when to use the pencil and when to use the eraser, and and that's a lot of it is just time is just is what gives you that knowledge.
Rob:Yeah. It's funny. I because it's you you kinda go hog wild in this when you got these demo, you know, I put together these demos in my studio and I can go crazy with I guess I could put orchestras and do whatever I want. Like, recently, I I put together a demo, and I had, like, 4 or 5 acoustic guitars on there. You know?
Rob:And I said, I sent it over to the guy to mix it and he came back and said, you know, I think we just need to start over, like just one guitar, maybe one little keyboard over here, and then we're going to add some vocal. And it's just kind of reinforced by the idea that I it's it's like you said, get the eraser out. It's a process of subtraction Yeah. During the mixing.
Brad:That's it. Yeah. That's it. That's exactly it.
Rob:And you gotta find a place for everything. And, you know, it's really changed my view now. I'm going to him with simple demos and saying, what what else do you hear? You know? And we just finished a song I'm trying to put out in in a few weeks, and it's an acoustic guitar thing.
Rob:And we don't even have percussion on there. So, I mean, it's it's gonna be really stripped down, but, but he added a lot of things himself. This is another one of these, crazy, can do everything kind of producer, mixer guys. Matt Patrick, I'm working with, from the library recording studio, which is which is an amazing place. He's he's got a really he's a musician, and he's got a really good sense of what works and what doesn't.
Rob:So when I'm working with him, I'm confident that he knows what will work for the song. So when I'm doing solo stuff with him now, I just send him as much I take it as far as I can, and then I say, hey. What do you what do you think about this? And then he'll kinda put on both his producer hat and his mixing hat, and he'll just strip it down or change it up, and he's he'll sing on it. He'll add parts, and it's just great.
Rob:I mean, it really helps me.
Brad:There's so much to be said about working with people that you can trust and that you just you trust their process and trust their creativity, and they'll know what to add and what not to add. You know?
Rob:Yeah.
Brad:Not not wanting put to put too much of their own fingerprint on it, just putting what is what's necessary.
Rob:Yeah. And that that does take some, he's got both the hard skills and the soft skills. Like he when I go in the studio with him, he can work lightning fast. So if, if you, if he has an idea or he wants to do something, he can just do it, you know? And it's like, for me, I'd be messing around for an hour trying to figure out how to how to make it all sound good, you know?
Rob:And and then he's got the ears, so then he can just like, nope. We're gonna just gonna pull this all out. We're just gonna put this and the panning and the all the plugins. I mean, you know what it's it's that's a whole another, area that I've just it's beyond me in some ways.
Brad:And it's one thing to put the tracks down and try not to go overboard with the tracking. But then you can go overboard in the mixing and the postproduction piece of it, adding too many effects or going too crazy with the EQ. I mean, there's Right. There's so many pieces to this.
Rob:There is, and it's all about choices. I mean, I find that that really is what it comes down. It's like, you have to make a choice of what, how, what do you want it to really sound like? Because there are some bold choices to make. I mean, you could, you could really have massive delay on your voice.
Rob:Maybe some people will like that. I don't know. You know, it's like you sort of have to decide what you can what you really want this to sound like, and that's that's hard.
Brad:It's hard. Yeah. And and and the effect the effects on it can almost define the sound of the track as much as the instrument or the vocal can.
Rob:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, it's, I struggle with that because I wanna try something new, but sometimes you get set in your ways, you know, and it's like, oh, I don't know if I want so much reverb on my voice. Maybe you want some other effects on there.
Rob:I mean, you can do some bold things that would be really cool. Maybe you wanna try some vocoder. I don't know. You know, you could go crazy.
Brad:Yeah.
Rob:But, I haven't reached that point yet. I maybe have thoughts about doing some other side project where, hey, let's sky's the limit. Let's just try some experimental stuff.
Brad:Yeah. Let's just go for it and see what happens. I always like to ask this people when I'm talking to them. Do you listen what do you listen to that people would be surprised that you listen to? It doesn't even have to be a guilty pleasure type of music.
Brad:What what what are some things that you listen to that people may not think?
Rob:You know, I, I listen to those Taylor Swift records, during the pandemic, the more folksy ones, and kinda liked it. Yeah. Kinda liked a lot of it.
Brad:I'm out there with you.
Rob:And I'm like, this is a whole different side. That made me realize it's like, yeah, you can make choices. You can sound however you want, and you can you can just break the model, and she's able to do that. She worked really hard to come up with a different sound for that record. I guess there were 2 of them, and I really liked that.
Rob:I thought that I appreciated that more than a lot of her other stuff that's more slick, you know, produced. Yeah. Then she had Bon Iver in there, and the guy from the National was producing. It just sounded really cool. And I was like, I'd go in that vein more than I more than I would like in a pop vein, you
Brad:know. Yeah. Well, and it and it shows too that a good song is a good song. And and however you dress it up, if it's if it's a bad song, it doesn't matter what you do with it. Right?
Rob:Yeah. And that is that's a really good point because I I do struggle with the treatment of my songs. I do have a lot of demos that I'm piling up here, which is great. I have material, but I don't know how to treat them, and I'm not sure, that's kind of been the roadblocks sometimes. It's like, how do I want?
Rob:Because, like, I'll write stuff on piano all day long, but do I really want this to be a piano song?
Brad:You know
Rob:what I mean? A lot of people, I was listening to Prince the other day, his estate release, him just, like, jamming on piano. I don't know if you've seen that on Itunes. He's got have you heard this? I've heard it.
Rob:I'm like, oh my god. This guy is well, first of all, he's a genius. And second, he's writing on piano and then you hear the song later and it's like, there's nothing in there on piano. I mean, it's a completely different song.
Brad:Right.
Rob:And you're thinking, wow, that's, I really need to think outside the box. You don't have to be Elton John on every song. You know what I mean? You can completely ditch the original instrument. And I learned this actually, I learned this lesson pretty hard on that last solo record because when I was working with a producer, he, he he was starting to mix the songs, and I'm like, wow.
Rob:He's totally took everything out of there except for you know, it was like, oh, you know, the piano or the keyboard. I mean, it was a completely different sound, but it was like, yeah. I see what you're saying. We can make this a different kind of song if if I don't have, like, piano, like, all over the place.
Brad:Yeah. It's it's it's the temptation is to, I think, is to write to what you know and write to what you're comfortable with. And, you know, look. We want to produce what feels comfortable to us. You know?
Brad:And and I think it's it is it's hard sometimes to take those risks.
Rob:There is there is, there is something I really like about a piano vocal tune that I, I never wanna let go of because there's so much because that's my main instrument, there's so much I can do to color the track. And even if it's just vocal and piano, which I may actually put out a few of those on this next record is just, here's me on piano and vocal, and I'll have all of the necessary parts in there. I'll have the rhythm and the bass. And so you almost don't need to add anything, you know? Yeah.
Rob:But like you said, I was like, do you or I think you were inferring. It's like, yeah. You can you can start off with that, but, maybe you wanna switch it up. But if you if you can get away with, like you said, the the song is the main thing. A good song is gonna shine through.
Rob:I I think that's great because I would I would much rather not get it all cluttered up. Yeah. But I always feel like it's a little naked. It's like, are people gonna wanna listen to this? It sounds like I'm just, you know, it's a live thing, but I don't know.
Brad:I can tell you as as as a listener of your music and what you write and how you perform it, I think people would go nuts over hearing that. Well, everything you've released over the years is fantastic, but to me, at the root of it is you singing your songs, and I think that that is that's what keeps me coming back because I I like your songs, and I like the way you do them. That's really it.
Rob:Wow. Well, thank you for that. I I think that fortifies me to continue to write piano songs and, lay them out there for you because I'm happy to do that. And, maybe, maybe there will be some of that more stripped down stuff because it really it really could, condense the process from months months months to, like I mean, I've got songs ready to go here. I'm I can record them right now, but I'm just like, how do I wanna treat it?
Rob:You know? But if I could get a group of songs together, I'm just like, here's just vocal and piano, guitar and piano. I mean, we could have this record done in a few months, you know.
Brad:Yeah. I think for me, how can I explain this? I think sometimes for me, the best thing I can do is just get out of my own way, you know, and and get out of my head about it and because I tend to overthink things like that. And
Rob:I'm the same way.
Brad:Yeah. Yeah. So
Brad:And just press record and go for it. That's what I that's that's my advice.
Rob:Yeah. I tend to agonize over every little thing, and, it's not healthy. And, I really need to, I think, get in a space where I'm not thinking about the audience, and I'm not thinking about anything other than, like, oh, I really like how this sounds. Because I think that's the best place to be. I don't I think I I I fall into that trap of, like, okay.
Rob:What's everybody gonna think about this? You know? But, if it sounds good to you, I think I think I'm happy. You know? Because that's that's what I, that's what I aspire to is just, like, just making myself happy with the recording.
Brad:A lot of times
Rob:that's that's when I'll sign off. It's like, you know, I think this sounds really good, and I don't know what people are gonna think about it, but I'm happy. You know?
Brad:Yeah. That's it. You know, and there's a certain part of it too is is you wanna write music that's accessible to people and that people will connect with. But at the same time, write and perform music that you know you would like to listen to, And chances are that's gonna connect with a lot of people.
Rob:Yeah. That's exactly right. I think I think you gotta you gotta be in that frame of mind because, I mean, you don't wanna be in a situation where you're trying to write for an audience and then you don't like it and they don't like it. So it's like, what was the point of that? Yeah.
Brad:Well, I'm, I'm digging everything you're releasing, and I'm just gonna just keep waiting for more and more stuff to come out. And, you know, everyone that's listening to this, I just encourage you to go out and check out Rob's music. It is it's, it's left quite an impact on me and everyone that I've let hear it. They are just, they're just knocked out with, with your songs, man. They've they we all love it.
Rob:Oh, thank you, man. Really appreciate that.
Brad:Yeah. Absolutely.
Rob:Inspires me to continue. So I will, I'll get right after we get off this call. I'm gonna start working on the the next song here.
Brad:Good. I expect the full report. Please let keep me posted.
Rob:I sure will.
Brad:So yeah. Well, Rob, man, I I'm not gonna keep you any longer. I just, this has been a this has been an absolute pleasure just getting to hang out with you and tell you how much your music means to me and just get to know you better.
Rob:Oh, thanks, man. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Brad:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Rob:Let's keep in touch.
Brad:Thanks for listening to the Bandwich tapes. I'm your host, Brad Williams. The show's theme is called Playcation and was written by Mark Mundy. Drop me a line at the email address, thebandwichtapes@gmail.com. Make sure to subscribe to receive new episodes of the podcast.
Brad:And while you're at it, please tell someone else about the show. Thanks for listening.
